Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

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oldschoolwwwf
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Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by oldschoolwwwf » July 30th, 2015, 3:16 pm

Bad timing as Pineda goes on DL with forearm muscle strain, same injury as Miller, who missed a month..Miller only one had rehabd appearance, Pineda will need more so you are looking at mid September at best i would think..

just when Hammels and Price get traded, this happens, although I dont think Yanks would have traded top prospects for those guys regardless of Pineda injury

It just is a tough loss on a day the blue jays got significantly better..


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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by AJLe » July 30th, 2015, 4:27 pm

I agree they wouldn't, but they SHOULD have traded a top prospect in a package for Hammels, since he's under contract for multiple years. Moot point now, but with Tanaka & Pineada being injury risks, Nova coming off of TJ, and CC pitching poorly, they really needed to shore up the rotation with a reliable starter before the deadline, and now it looks like they missed the boat.

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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by oscargamble » July 31st, 2015, 7:51 am

I don't know... I think if we move Warren back to the rotation, bring up Severino, and snag a top reliever (see Kimbrel or Chapman, hell even possibly Benoit?), we'll be OK. Maybe we can pull both Shields and Kimbrel from San Diego. We only need to weather the storm for August, and then hopefully Pineda will be back and Tanaka will have righted the ship. If Pineda and Tanaka fall apart, then grabbing a stud starter like Hamels wouldn't have been enough anyways. Personally, I'll live with whatever this year brings as long as we get to see our homegrown talent like Severino, Judge, Bird stay with us and produce in pinstripes next year. I still like Refsnyder, Mitchell throws well, Lindgren should eventually produce... I'm lovin' finally having a minor league system that has some hope !

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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by WOODMO » July 31st, 2015, 8:36 am

Yeah I am with Oscar. No need to panic and move top prospects for a rental or Hamels. Whatever they get this year, they get. Next year though, you might have to pay David Price and end this being thrifty shit.

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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by lanza218 » July 31st, 2015, 8:40 am

Def not Screwed at all. I had my doubts this year about the team but I was dead wrong


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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by AJLe » July 31st, 2015, 10:17 am

oscargamble wrote:Personally, I'll live with whatever this year brings as long as we get to see our homegrown talent like Severino, Judge, Bird stay with us and produce in pinstripes next year. I still like Refsnyder, Mitchell throws well, Lindgren should eventually produce... I'm lovin' finally having a minor league system that has some hope !
They've overhyped prospects for so long, I don't have a lot of confidence in them whey they tell me there's some hope - Hughes, Montero, Austin Jackson, the B&B guys, etc. were supposed to be the saviors from the minors, and more often then not, it was mostly just hype. Most prospects in baseball are, at best, a roll of the dice, and so many of them NEVER pan out to even be average major league talents. So personally, I would always take an established stud starter who's locked up under contract like Hammels, over just about any prospect who's not legitimately a Trout/Harper/Harvey level can't-miss talent in the minors.

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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by oscargamble » July 31st, 2015, 10:52 am

EVERY team overhypes their minor leaguers... And you are correct to a point (although you mention "the B&B guys"...uhhhhhh, one of those "B"s is Dellin Betances and I ain't complaining with what he's done the past year and a half!)... And for every guy you mention that may have not panned out, how many did we deal before we gave them a chance and now they are prospering for someone else? I'm not arguing with you, like most things the answer is somewhere in the middle. I understand your logic of trading the uncertainty of the future for the proven vet.
But my point was that I'm sick of our recent track record of overpaying for guys past their prime while our kids never get a chance to produce in pinstripes. Would Hamels benefit us? of course. Cueto? sure. I'm just saying, for me, I'd rather see us finally allow some of our kids the chance to produce. Rather than trade away our youth for these guys, like Woodmo alluded to, wait til the off season and then just sign them as FAs without having to move our kids.

Also, it's not just the Yankees blowing smoke and "overrating" Severino, Judge, Bird etc... it's pretty much accepted amongst MLB that these kids are for real, hence all the interest in them. I don't think there's a baseball expert out there who would say Severino isn't a better option for us, right now, than the 2015 version of CC we have witnessed... I'd love to see us produce another home-grown Core 4 or something even remotely close...

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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by oldschoolwwwf » July 31st, 2015, 11:16 am

problem with severino being our "savior" this year is that he has thrown almost as many innings this year as last- they will not overtax a prized commodity like him..his innings will be limited from here out this season

cc is done, you cant expect less than 5 runs every 5 innings he throws anymore...pineda out until at least september 1, prob more like sept 15...tanaka risks tj surgery every time he throws and he is far from lights out anyway..the bullpen guys throw all the time bc the starters cant give you length..

im not syaing they should have traded judge severino and bird but if i could have got hammels for severino and a few lesser guys, id have done it..you hope that one day severino will be as good as hammels..you could have had it guaranteed with hammels..

wouldnt trade them for rentals but i would trade one of them for a price if you could lock him up before you make the deal..not easy to come by aces..

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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by AJLe » July 31st, 2015, 11:47 am

oscargamble wrote:EVERY team overhypes their minor leaguers... And you are correct to a point (although you mention "the B&B guys"...uhhhhhh, one of those "B"s is Dellin Betances and I ain't complaining with what he's done the past year and a half!)...
I love Betances too, but coming up, they were hyping the B&B guys like they were going to be the two stud starters that were going to anchor the rotation for years to come - fast forward 2-3 years later, one of them is out of the system, and the other is a reliever - granted, he's a GREAT reliever, but that's a far cry from the front end of the rotation ace that people were buzzing about a couple of years ago.
oscargamble wrote:And for every guy you mention that may have not panned out, how many did we deal before we gave them a chance and now they are prospering for someone else? I'm not arguing with you, like most things the answer is somewhere in the middle. I understand your logic of trading the uncertainty of the future for the proven vet. ...
Recently, the Yanks farm system has produced very few studs, regardless of whether they kept them or not. Jesus Montero can't even stay in the majors for a full season, Austin Jackson and Phil Hughes have been pretty decent, but not great, Ian Kennedy had one awesome year and has barely been a .500 pitcher since, etc. There were a ton of examples of great prospects in the 80's being dealt but since the dynasty years started in the 90's, there are far fewer.
oscargamble wrote:But my point was that I'm sick of our recent track record of overpaying for guys past their prime while our kids never get a chance to produce in pinstripes. Would Hamels benefit us? of course. Cueto? sure. I'm just saying, for me, I'd rather see us finally allow some of our kids the chance to produce. Rather than trade away our youth for these guys, like Woodmo alluded to, wait til the off season and then just sign them as FAs without having to move our kids. .
I agree 100% on that, but with a guy like Hammels, he's a relatively young lefty starter who has a career ERA in the low 3's while pitching in a hitter's park. So it's not like the 80's when they were dealing guys like Buhner for bums like Ken Phelps, this would be giving up potential to get quality proven big league talent.
oscargamble wrote:Also, it's not just the Yankees blowing smoke and "overrating" Severino, Judge, Bird etc... it's pretty much accepted amongst MLB that these kids are for real, hence all the interest in them. I don't think there's a baseball expert out there who would say Severino isn't a better option for us, right now, than the 2015 version of CC we have witnessed... I'd love to see us produce another home-grown Core 4 or something even remotely close...
No argument there - I'm reading that Tim Hudson pretty much just told management he would go to the bullpen, since that was what was best for the team. Would love to see CC man up and do the same.

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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by oscargamble » July 31st, 2015, 1:46 pm

meh, we can agree to disagree. You say "recently, our farm system hasn't produced any studs"..just because some of the highly touted prospects of years past didn't pan out doesn't automatically mean our current crop will flop as well. I'm not trying to prove you or oldschool are "wrong". Neither of us are wrong, we are just supporting different paths for our NYY to get back to the top. I get where you guys are coming from: trade "what could be" for the more sure "what already is". I get it. But for me, I think we can all agree that we've all seen too many long term deals for SPs turn ugly before the pact is up. Hell, look at how quickly Justin Verlander went from stud to not. Would Hamels be a great addition to our staff? Absolutely - no argument there. We can all say "well just because a rookie is hyped doesn't mean he's a sure thing." True. But we can also say "just because a guy has been studly for the past few years doesn't mean he is a guaranteed thing going forward" especially if a long term pact is tied to him (the always possible arm injury for pitchers, whether the dude can handle NYC, etc)... so everything is a gamble. My point is simply that after too many years of watching us overpaying washed up guys on the wrong side of their careers, I would love to see us field a team where the nucleus is our own home grown talent, and then use the free agent market to augment that nucleus. Severino doesn't need to be a "savior", he just needs to be better than CC, and that won't take much. Likewise, can Judge outperform Beltran? Refsnyder outperform Drew? Again, it wouldn't take much.
It's all good... at least i'm not arguing with a Red Sox fan!

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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by oscargamble » July 31st, 2015, 6:27 pm

... and all that being said, I am NOT happy that we didn't at least do something before the deadline... I'm mean, c'mon... Kimbrel? Chapman? ugh :facepalm:

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Re: Pineda out a month at minimum..Yanks screwed..

Post by lanza218 » August 5th, 2015, 5:03 pm

Id say Screwed is an over estimate. Tonight is a big test


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