Forced Validity

Discuss general topics dealing with the hobby.
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Joresky
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Re: Forced Validity

Post by Joresky » December 20th, 2016, 3:44 pm

I like my McCartney shot better, and mine is legit because Paul actually agreed to take it


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Re: Forced Validity

Post by AsianDave » December 20th, 2016, 4:16 pm

Damn straight it is! You tell him, Jeremiah! Tell that goofball you don't suffer fools easily!

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Re: Forced Validity

Post by WOODMO » December 20th, 2016, 5:46 pm

Lack of consent doesn't bother me. I don't love the photo bomb backward placement though. If he was directly next to them I'd be fine with it. Though I'd take his over nothing

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Jason1980s
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Re: Forced Validity

Post by Jason1980s » December 20th, 2016, 6:23 pm

Jeremiah's pic is definitely superior!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I may be the one person who just doesn't care about the Beetles but I can sure appreciate Jeremiah's pic. I am interested in George Harrison's personal life and John Lennon death but other than that, the group just don't interest me. BUT, I do know they are something so when I saw Jeremiah's Paul photo op pop up on the facebook feed, I was pretty excited for him. It's a very nice photo op, especially considering how tough he is whether it's one on one or a crowd and considering how chaotic the crowd may have been.
Now, if this guy had maybe been looking slightly to his right, in Paul's direction, it might have been pretty cool. This is the equivalent of a relative or friend taking our picture at a signing with us looking at the camera but the star is looking down at what he is signing, not acknowledging our existence.
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class316
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Re: Forced Validity

Post by class316 » December 20th, 2016, 6:45 pm

I agree with :pauuuse: consent does not matter as we are not having sex with the celebrity.

Initially I looked at the photo op and thought it better than that of Joresky. The pose is just better than the selfie he got. However, I then read that he apparently used photoshop to make it look more valid. Given that info I reverse my initial stance.
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Re: Forced Validity

Post by WOODMO » December 20th, 2016, 6:53 pm

class316 wrote:I agree with :pauuuse: consent does not matter as we are not having sex with the celebrity.

Initially I looked at the photo op and thought it better than that of Joresky. The pose is just better than the selfie he got. However, I then read that he apparently used photoshop to make it look more valid. Given that info I reverse my initial stance.
My initial guess was always that he fixed the eyes. I didn't think Paul would have a reason, while sharing a moment with his wife, to look directly into the pap's camera.

Consent is a grey area. I have asked people who never actually say yes, or no, they simply look. I have also had people who say no, but still look. Then you have the times where someone says yes and agrees, but looks away, like Chris Rock tends to do or David Spade, what really makes it different? At the end of the day, you just need to get something you can live with, no matter what their answer was.

Not every photo is a buddy buddy experience like Orton and others strive for. You can try to make it NOT appear creepy, but in most cases these are people leaving their hotels to eat or go for a walk who find themselves swarmed by stalkers. The ones who make it appear friendly and nice are honestly just acting.

This photo's main complaint for me is not the consent. As I said, who cares? My issue is he is clearly behind him and not next to him or interacting in any way. At least anything I've forced, I am there next to the person, interacting and annoying them. Ben was just lurking in the background. But again, I won't bash his methods, he has something he's happy with, and does anything else matter? Also it's more than most of us will have.

People need to stop viewing this hobby as some competitive sport, no matter your methods, if you get results you're happy with, nothing else matters. There is no Hall of Fame you're trying to get into. The same sentiment exists with many street people towards paid ops... It's cheating and less impressive, fuck that noise.

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Re: Forced Validity

Post by Greg2600 » December 20th, 2016, 7:01 pm

Here's the entire sequence. Clear photoshopping of the eyes. Normally I personally don't a problem doing it if there is consent, and the subject looks away (intentionally or not). In this case, Paul never looked at the camera. Someone joked about it on FB, I actually didn't believe he'd have faked it.

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Re: Forced Validity

Post by class316 » December 20th, 2016, 7:02 pm

WOODMO wrote:Not every photo is a buddy buddy experience like Orton and others strive for. You can try to make it NOT appear creepy, but in most cases these are people leaving their hotels to eat or go for a walk who find themselves swarmed by stalkers. The ones who make it appear friendly and nice are honestly just acting.
Agreed. When you have their hotel or flight info most "normal" people would say that in itself is creepy.
This photo's main complaint for me is not the consent. As I said, who cares? My issue is he is clearly behind him and not next to him or interacting in any way. At least anything I've forced, I am there next to the person, interacting and annoying them. Ben was just lurking in the background. But again, I won't bash his methods, he has something he's happy with, and does anything else matter? Also it's more than most of us will have.
IMO being next or behind is no factor. Many celebs purposely want to pose when not next to the person. Robert Downy Jr for instance. And if you look at the Sam Jackson photo ops of me and adelta, Sam Jackson is behind us. It's true Ben is kinda forcing himself into the shot but so were you with John Goodman. In either scenario the celeb wanted nothing to do with the person trying for the photo op.
The same sentiment exists with many street people towards paid ops... It's cheating and less impressive, fuck that noise.
True. I've had a Master saying that "paying takes away the fun". My response to that, it's not fun either way, at least one method is guaranteed. And he also said that our Gal Godot photo ops are garbage because she is not "into" the photo op and looks like a cardboard cut out. Everyone gets the same thing.
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Jason1980s
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Re: Forced Validity

Post by Jason1980s » December 20th, 2016, 7:05 pm

It's really too bad he had to look forward the whole time. If he had looked towards either one of them throughout the sequence it would've been pretty cool. Looks very awkward with the straight ahead looking.
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Re: Forced Validity

Post by WOODMO » December 20th, 2016, 9:19 pm

Seeing the originals, I definitely would prefer Jerry's op. I also agree with Greg, fixing eyes without consent is pushing boundaries of validity. It's also creepy seeing frames of him just standing there, much worse than the finished product. But most aspects of hobby are creepy, so most don't have room to really judge

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Re: Forced Validity

Post by jorgerr96 » December 20th, 2016, 9:23 pm

class316 wrote:I agree with :pauuuse: consent does not matter as we are not having sex with the celebrity.

Initially I looked at the photo op and thought it better than that of Joresky. The pose is just better than the selfie he got. However, I then read that he apparently used photoshop to make it look more valid. Given that info I reverse my initial stance.
would you be okay with someone just approaching you for no reason and then take a selfie with you?
Just wondering

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Re: Forced Validity

Post by WOODMO » December 20th, 2016, 9:46 pm

jorgerr96 wrote:
class316 wrote:I agree with :pauuuse: consent does not matter as we are not having sex with the celebrity.

Initially I looked at the photo op and thought it better than that of Joresky. The pose is just better than the selfie he got. However, I then read that he apparently used photoshop to make it look more valid. Given that info I reverse my initial stance.
would you be okay with someone just approaching you for no reason and then take a selfie with you?
Just wondering
I wouldn't. But if I was rich and famous I'd understand that's the shitty weird part of an otherwise great existence

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Re: Forced Validity

Post by ICW » December 20th, 2016, 10:08 pm

I don't think I could ever "forcefully" take a photo with someone. That's just bizarre to me.
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Re: Forced Validity

Post by heelorton79 » December 20th, 2016, 10:12 pm

class316 wrote:Creepy? Perhaps. But as is stalking any celebrity at a private setting.

If he is looking in, then it's valid whether or not Paul is aware.

I would take that over nothing anytime and any day.

That being said he made a comment that he got a "little" help from photoshop, which would tell me that perhaps it was invalid to start with. In which case I would prefer Joresky's shot.

But if this hadn't been apparently photoshopped, then this looks better than Joresk's shot.
This is extra creepy. You can tell it has been photo-shopped, because the eye that is looking does not look natural.
But here is the difference between you and me. You base validity on whether a photo has been altered slightly. I do not. Yes, the two of them are in the same photo...it exists. However, there needs to be some sort of connection between the collector and the celebrity..an agreement, saying "the two of us have agreed to take a photo together". That is what truly makes it valid. Otherwise, what is the point of taking photos with celebs? You might as well take photos with trees instead! On your "rules of validity", you can actually have valid pictures with the freshly deceased! Just go the the cemetery or funeral home, open their eyes..make sure they are facing the camera..and shoot!
But again, we are all free to have different rules that apply to our photos.

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Re: Forced Validity

Post by heelorton79 » December 20th, 2016, 10:13 pm

class316 wrote:
jorgerr96 wrote:I agree, that McCartney op looks terrible. I would rather not have it than have one of those were most of my friends would laugh at me and call me a creeper.
I'd rather be a creeper with a photo op over not being a creeper and having no photo op.
see..that's problematic :facepalm:


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